this kind of an, a process has been going on and, and actually a russia and china entity in the dependency has been enhancing. so definitely there, so there's a trend or, and positive trend going on about his own chinese system. but i think the chinese would also like to make the system compatible with the russian system. and as a matter of fact, and if you put up a kind of alternative school system, you still need international partners to back up with you. so that m things will get into, let me clear this transition in this transition from swift to seps. it could happen and quickly. yes, i think it would. depends on tim factors. the 1st factor says m, how we are still looking at how the chinese economy is doing a and also how the u. s. economy stewing, m, if the u. s. economy is mort, for example, by the end of this year. and it's not performing as low as the chinese economy than

it looks like. and there is a strong momentum for the sips. now from the other countries on cy, this pick poll port, it's point of view i am looking at are the small countries and middle countries. i am in the future, i think it will be safe. i and it will be wise to bet our bass are in, in both with the systems because if you end up being sanctioned by the suite, then just you still have another 6 to go right back. now while we leave it there, thank you very much for your time coming live on the program. and that's the latest from moscow so far this monday. thank you for watching this world news addition. 247 will update your course at r t dot com. for now. good evening. ah, ah.

i'm after events in what you're going underground as we again appeal to any journalist or bulletin from ukraine or nato countries who support kiev to come on the show and explain their opposition to vladimir putin. recognition of no hands can donates republics. we have yet to probably hear from the other side, even if they are only too willing to appear in circle nato nation. mainstream media bow while they do nation me disease ukraine is the only new story. tomorrow is the one year anniversary of jo biden's defeat agreement with the taliban. so what was it? all 4, tens of thousands of nato dead, a wounded on calculated numbers of ordinary afghans, killed, wounded or displaced. joining me now is prolific journalist, an author and ville may guarantee lowenstein, author of profits of doomed is off to capitalism, making a killing out of catastrophe and pills,

powder and smoke inside the bloody war on drugs and co founder of declassified australia joins me now from sidney in australia. thank you so much anthony vera, coming back on. obviously ukraine is the world story yet, so your declassified australia apiece appears to suggest that the, the, well, the intentions of the war in afghanistan weren't quite what the media told us. it was obviously, but they're even quiet and down in a donation mainstream media by the freezing of assets during the winter. so it wasn't about un security council resolution 1378, allowing invasion by nature. countries though, there were other aspects to the occupation of afghanistan. i think the last 10 years looking at this and she were f. kennedy and i've been there twice in 2012 and, and the state. and one of the things i've been investigating for a long time is the natural resources under the ground in afghanistan. the soviets, in fact, discovered this 50 odd years ago when i were in the country, i couldn't do much with it. first for 2001,

the u. s. allies went into the country and they sing, discovered the soviet plans essential for always, minerals, gold cup, a leafy m, rarer, and for the 20 ease of the us led occupation. they try, they bang the u. s. australia u. k. tried to exploit those resources which are worth anywhere between $1.00 to $4.00 trillion us dollars. and in short, they didn't get away from the country, was at war. there was massive corruption. and the question i really was looking at for this declassified australia and declassify u. k. investigation, but also in my work on the south, the capitalism is what was the reason behind these countries trying to extract the mean was on the one hand yes, i want to make money. trump was a big fan of the resources he actually opened. they said, this is maybe a way i could support the afghan war. american corporations could make money from the resources. and i reported a number of british and australian, large corporations, and individuals who tried mostly on successfully to make deals with the afghan

government for taliban took over in 2021 to sign deals to try to extract these resources. and the sad reality is that if any of those deals had actually gone through, the only way to extract those resources in i was, i used to pay off militias and to pay for you right now. me. and which is what a lot of people do in counseling science to extract resources. and the question really i have been having is why is the see she really talked about them and i know why, but it should be and i think why we're getting to why, but i guess because we believe major countries, britain and australia of course, are focused on in your religious piece for the classified australia, you know, we know why the lesser of 2 evils, if one evil is poverty, the other is to mind for the benefit of the african people. just remind us of the role of u. s. contractor eric prince. i mean, i thought the trump advisory was brother of trump's education secretary, betsy,

the divorce he was about you cia, security ca back security. why is eric prince in your article about this idea of mining for the benefit of the people who have gamma? i mean, eric prince is material that's obviously very polite. he had a vision. if you can call it that, an afghan, a stand for 2 things. when the trump administration main office one, he advertised and promoted to trump and he's people that they should privatize the war. he argued that the war was a failure. the only way to the u. s. could when the war was, of course, was before the television took over last year, was of the war should be privatized, that he's, people should essentially run the country and in a private army, that was the 1st a brand idea. the 2nd one was he talked openly and proudly, and he spent time in campbell. i did some recording about this a few years ago and his questions were put directly to him that he advocated mining in afghanistan. in fact, because he knew trump was so keen on the idea of the afghan war being his v. a

benefit if you american companies could actually extract resources. prince was exploring the possibility of extracting some of these rarer. so we shouldn't forget these rare lithium, amongst others. i key ingredients in mobile phones and computers and of course, as we move towards the day as well. so we hope these resources which often are in conflict zones, d, r, say, congo, afghanistan and elsewhere are part of the question of how do you expect these resources when you're claiming to be carbonized in a secure and beneficial way. whereas the actual extraction is so dirty and messy and ugly as it often is. people like eric prince, a 1st in line to try to get the results of suffice to say didn't get anything. the plan failed, as most of his plans often do, but he was on the more prominent advocates for this plan. but there are many others . let me get to its failure in a moment. obviously he wouldn't say was harebrained. i bet there's

a lot of good know in the national security council, the u. s. who's a bully. right. and they wouldn't have been defeated if they'd taken eric prince's advice. i know we're kind of smiling, but obviously this is horrific for the people of afghanistan in terms of what happened to them or during this occupation. you then talk in your piece about the british geographical survey, i completely benign, lovely organizations, i'm sure, and they would deny any wrongdoing in this they, they may have a gun expirations from 2004 and m. and your saying that to what the british geographical survey may be doing may have been directly linked to this idea of expectation, of mineral resources, which would de facto some suggest a b, stone. yes, i mean, obviously there's no connection to eric crane, but what they were doing there amongst other similar organizations, including the equivalent organization in the u. s. was they were working with the afghan government, which was then how many cars are with the afghan ministry mines,

which was notoriously corrupt, pretty much for the entire 20 year occupation to do 2 things. first, to claim that we're building a fair and equitable mining law. so foreign companies want to come in, they could sign deals with the afghan government, and the afghan people would benefit, which is in theory, what should happen, right? and secondly, they were also working on an area code 9, which is now from table in our province. it is one of the largest corporate deposits in the world. it was the graphical organization was working with the afghan government to make it possible. yeah. for tender, the chinese caught that contract about 15 years ago. and they've done nothing with that. in short, because the violence corruption, i'm and i was damaged 2015. i spent time in the villages in this community right next to the proposed mind. and they were so devastated and angry at the chinese at

the afghan government at the taliban. because that being shafted, they had been promised the world. they've been promised roads and schools for their kids. and that were given nothing. and they were facing violence from the taliban, from the afghan government. and from milton, like i says, so they're on the verge of joining the insurgency at the time because i was so angry by what was happening then he says one example, but it shows the broader question and the irony is the group that benefited motion the results boom in afghanistan in the last 20 years, was the tell of that to tell. and we're making huge amounts of money from exploiting resources. i mean, a lot of say illegally. i went to partnership with the afghan government, of course that were doing it themselves. there were exporting the resources around the world and i'm making a lot of money. and in fact, alabama generally getting their money from 2 major sources, drugs and mining people to know more about the drugs aspect, but less about the mining. in fact, now that the taliban are in jobs since august last year. what's interesting is that

they are clearly cash pool to put it politely. the countries collapsing the way the census abandoned the nations of bate them. and they punishing the afghan people for the fact of the taliban one, the war. and what the taliban a trying to do is 2 things. one is trying to sell some of the mines off the creek cash. and the countries that are most likely to benefit from the potential results for him is china and pakistan. the western nations usaa australia. k that invested huge amounts of money in trying to argue we steal those resources. i've got nothing out of that. and that, to me, i think it's a pretty interesting lesson for many colonialists everywhere. well, obviously you have britain in the united states say that they're not punishing the album for winning in the war. i mean, what do you think the insurgents, i mean, those people you talk to back then, what would they think about the freezing of assets by joe biden?

today, given that as you say, all the promises made to them were broken about how mining would enrich their lives and the explanation of resources in the region. i think that would be ended and desperate and incredibly frustrated. and i have a lot of african friends, both in afghan, a stand in the diaspora in the u. k. a u. s. and i've never met anyone in the last 6 months to tell a man took over to support. but the us is doing, i mean, whether they supported the u. s. leaving or not, there's different views of that to be fair. but in terms of what's happening now, there is no one he thinks the u. s. policy is moral or even the legal. i mean the afghan people are on the verge of mass starvation, the population of 40000000 people un estimates at 98 percent of them a food insecure. there is a country incomplete, not to collapse. most, some western media ignores that. there are some journalists that do cover to be

fair, but in general it's mostly ignored. whereas when the taliban were taking over in august, there was a huge orgy of concern, apparently for the afghan people, most that has not disappeared. and to me is some is spend a lot of time in afghanistan in the last 10 years. and he still believes that afghanistan deserves independence. and freedom a tell a bad one, whether we like it or not. and the fact is that the people of afghanistan don't deserve to be punished for the fact that the taliban beach, the entire major western armies in the space of 20 years and the african friends i have the ones who are still in afghanistan desperate, they mostly desperate to get out, most of them come for a range of reasons, most western countries and not really open their doors to african refugees. some have to be, show the countries that have mostly a closer its neighbors pakistan, principally. but many afghans actually article is written. the officials, some of who may be involved in these sorts of mining conversations. i've been given

the asylum in australia and i should just say about the drug accusation. they say it's the nature of countries that was monitoring the drugs over there if they do that. yeah, that's not true, but yes, i know they denied, but no, there's been a number of countries including the u. k. and australia, who have taken lots of someone and i was african refugees. and i applaud that, but there's been a certain number of african senior government officials in for my asher kani regime with serious allegations, again, serious allegations of corruption and worse against them. well, the nations, i hope you are legation, but that regard as regards the freezing of assets, you talk about the imminent starvation that we've had in joe's on this program. people can also watch our harmon cause i interview actually away denies corruption . but the, the threat of starvation at the moment as biden freezes, these assets,

i was joe biden, i'm not sure what the direct relevance of afghanistan. the direct relevance to 911 is. he says ok, they may be starving there. the 911 compensation fund needs the afghan assets money . i mean it illogical and there are a number of families of 911 victims who have come out and not only said in the last weeks, this is a completely moral policy. we don't want to punish the afghan people for what happened on 911, which must not forget. 15 to the 19 hijackers was sadie. they weren't afghan, there were no afghans on those planes. yes. afghanistan, under the taliban gave shelter to al qaeda. but the afghan people to 40000000 and people not at fault for 911. and i think this is a case where the us, this is mostly bipartisan. there are, some democrats have come out and being critical of biden's policy that she now republicans have said much about it. and i think this really goes to the heart of how u. s. foreign policy. and frankly, u. k or australian foreign policy operates cause chaos, leave, mess, leave,

and don't wage on the way out. i mean this essentially what's happening gave all the money to china. obviously those countries deny all of that and say that they were mandated under the un resolution 1378 to do what they did to defend the united states. as we learned, i'll stop you there. more from the prolific journalist or the filmmaker co founder of the class, right, australia after this break. welcome back. i'm still here with on to the low inside the prolific into by the journalist or the filmmaker and co founder of d. classified australia told me about after i've gone you denies corruption and wrong. do we invite him on the program? you said one of an official in his government told you about how government contracts was signed regarding the mining leases. yes, i'm in one of the things, it's been very clear for years in afghanistan has been the role of us,

particularly u. s. and u. k. embassies in campbell, australia, or else he had a much smaller role where it's much smaller country with there was a military presence in afghanistan, but obviously compared to the u. s. u k, much smaller, smaller economically. so exactly, yes. not. yes, exactly. basically what my so said to me and i've heard it in other examples too, is that often the embassies of u. s. and u. k particularly was strong arming the afghan government on a range of mining contracts because they wanted companies from the countries to benefit from mining extracts. and this colleague of mine, or source of mine, was saying that he was in a room where he saw us and british officials pressuring african officials, senior afghan officials to sign a contract. now ultimately, as i said, all these contracts fail, no mining in any kind of decent,

reasonable way actually happened because of mass corruption. and the 2nd there was a was on. and what's so disappointing here is this may no real accountability at all. there's no real discussion about the role that nations like the u. s. and e k had and their embassies in cobble. i should also say alongside the question of mining. i also heard from the same source which isn't put in that story in declassified australia, but i've written that elsewhere is how often there was, well awareness of the mass corruption that was within the afghan government. but there was pressure on nations to keep on bringing the aid even though they knew that the vast bulk of it was disappearing into can bank accounts a very tiny minority of african bank accounts. so the afghan war itself costs the us putting for any other countries. well, over a trillion dollars they span, but that's obviously from military and also i suppose it,

aidan government support the u. s. but anyway, between half a trillion. so a trillion dollars on trying to build up an afghan state that essentially was arguably a failure from well argued weight, 2002 for 20 years. and as the washing and post reveal the feeds ago and it's really important series on afghanistan, u. u. s. officials and the u. s. military mute, the war was a failure and when he wakes documents and mine at all. so i show years ago how many officials, including from australia in the u. k, was saying privately, that the war was a disaster. the public, they were continuing. and so i think the lesson for me at, of all this and for i think anyone who's now center and human being is always be skeptical of government claims of that war. and especially when it's an attempt to try to steal a country's results of which are not as the steel. i mean now the countries in a bind, afghanistan, even if they can extract those resources, can be done safely,

can it be done securely? are they questions around extraction to chance of climate change research? there are an afghan friends of mine say i can stand, doesn't have the luxury of not extracting those resources while at the same time it's incredibly unclean with showing the structure to do so. who would really benefit if there was an ability for to do that now? who would benefit and i fear it would not be the afghan people. will the nato countries, what was he denied fafsa? and was really just to re, jing leaseholder about the future exploitation of julian sanchez detained here in london. and he famously said it was a recycling operation. i think estimates were actually to drill and it may have cost of the u. s. you talk about how an and c s come on handling company had access to the former. is gracie a boss general betray us? he's being interviewed quite a lot at the moment because of the ukraine. conflict is a great for his great insights into that conflict. i mean, obviously for to skew the essay s,

they all deny they're doing anything wrong. they'd say they're just trying to help the african people with their mining practices. what were they doing in this region and having to with a having to negotiate with well, that we're trying to make money. i mean, one of the interesting things in that for the sky, mitchell, which is, you don't know, is the largest mining companies in australia, or it's run by and forest is, was phase, which is man, he has ambition is to be one of the largest angie companies. in the world, which might sound like hyperbole buddies, the incredibly stiffly very powerful man. he had a vision on the show. i should just say he denies all wrong during he does. he doesn't day his company does as well, and his company signed a deal. this is not a secret, but he's company signed a deal in 2020 with the afghan government we've released and the classified australia, a contract of that where he essentially his company was able to get exclusive access to many of the areas. if has been a stand for a number of years to try to exploit a range of minerals and rare earth that never got off the ground. in short,

because of the ongoing war and british interests, a number of them had tried to support david cameron's conservative government back in the day to also try to access the results of them. if you look back even much publicly available from 10 years ago, there are countless articles by u. s. u. k. and australian officials, talking about the huge potential of afghanistan's mining boom boom, never happened. suffice to say, almost like every case that i've investigated on the story has been a shambles. there's no mining contract that i've seen in afghanistan that went well, not one week, none of that stopped a range of companies and countries pushing that. so i'm not saying the war in afghanistan was fought for 20 solely to extract the resources that would be untrue dislike. and i think the iraq war was fought solely for the oil. i think it was a factor, but i think it was the only race and it was imperial huberts amongst many other

reasons. and but the afghan resources would definitely part of that agenda. and it's just, it's an absolute disgrace after 20 years. that i those resources whenever i didn't get benefits to the afghan people, and he, we are in 2022 and none of the countries or companies that try to exploit those resources are being held to account for what was to what would have been a massive grand 5th of a countries priceless resources that's amazed is for, and most jama. so my dad are asleep at the wheel when it comes to this story. as you say, there were many is multifactorial. the invasion of afghanistan, as you were just talking about in terms of journalism. so many journalists, foster of catastrophic. i mean, 2 decades of war, united states is hong guest war. were there was some june of possible pipeline activity for energy resources in the initial stages of the war during these

journalists who were on the ground in kabul. some of them, obviously in the green zone just didn't know about the mining deliberately, didn't to talk about the mining or we're told not to talk about the mining with the idiots or was this was, this is something they wanted to avoid when they reported for their corporate media, barons look, i think there was obviously some good journalism done by jenna's in the last 20 years from us. she came straight, but so much of it was embedded and i'm not saying and i just made embedded in a literal sense. you know, in bedding with us, so pretty sure straight and true for that. ok, you happen to, it's embedded psychologically with the belief in the us is and there was benign to spite all the evidence to the country, whether it's war crimes, whether was mass violence committed by us. so british forces or drawing a tax, whatever it may be, love us, just some harsh reported, nice stories, of course,

but often i think they will still this belief that the u. s. has goal, there was no goal and he saw some of that come out very clearly when the us with drawing and all this last year that love those channels that spend 20 years supporting and blinding propping up by the us occupation and the afghan government almost in tears with the fact that their beloved occupation was coming 20, not often, they didn't explicitly say the occupation should last and different been, i mean, there's 2 choices here that tell a man take over all the us occupation continues. there's only 2 options in the and that was the choice. and i think for many corporate journalist who invested so much psychologically and blood and cheese since 2001, i think for them this i'm talking about u. s. u k. and us jam us is the cross much of the west and well with some notable exceptions that were very invested in that war. continuing their invested in a continuing under the guise of saving afghan women,

whatever the reasons are justifications that bank fees. and there's no doubt that elements of the war and i saw myself where african women, some of them were educated, that would not have been without the occupation. that's just a statement of fact batch. and it's a very b carriers. 70 percent african population is outside the major cities. so. so many of the journalists who are recording stan didn't leave hubble. well. didn't leave kandahar so what they saw was or muscle or whatever it made some nice feel sorry, most i sharif. so what i was saying was a very narrow slice of afghanistan, so many of the afghans who lived in the rural areas 70 percent, for then the last 20 years has been hell. that's from us, forces the taliban and militants. and obviously now the countries can play economic collapse and to media any way to address that is to engage in family. recognize that tele balance is on the view. many people want to hear back to those communities to live outside the cities. despite the economic collapse,

it is the most peaceful in afghanistan. now, for the last 40 years, none of this defends or denies. the violence is going on still now some communities have been impacted. i'm not denying any of that. and i know friends of mine have family cobble who are being targeted now by the taliban. so this is not a defensive tell about at all. but it says that from many afghans outside the cities who often didn't speak to jam a. so say journalists for them, the end of the us occupation at least briefly, was the rest by and as that's a be, that should be heard. often, it was not often exam journalists, some journalists did go to those other areas. and ideally they were, they, arguably that they're reporting wasn't exactly the best either, but overall, all those journalists to, apart from the notable exceptions that you mentioned, obviously say they were doing their best. just finally, how does this kind of action and this kind of reporting and analysis back fire on

the nature of military industrial complex as china and pakistan as you say in your new bees move in. i mean, you said the investment isn't there yet, and there, there are a lot of sanctions that are trying to prevent that. inward investments. do afghans down and i know the taliban despite the alleged human rights abuses they, they've come on this program all the deals, all for the name or on congress in moscow meeting vladimir putin just before believe grain, the conflict, it kicked off. what i mean without the analysis of journalism is basically the perceived adversaries of nato. are they going to, are they going to exploit the middle resources? potentially? yes, it's the short out. so many one. i wouldn't be confident to 100 percent say that he won't have in 612 months or 2 years weston governments and for that matter, western corporations trying to exploit the resources. to me, i see this is on a pause right now. all that would take is a major western nation to recognize the taliban. that may may happen. i mean,

i've got no insight into that, but i think it should happen tomorrow, but i think it needs to happen to allow potentially those western companies that want to go back into afghanistan to exploit their results. and i don't think that's a good thing, but i think it won't happen while much of the west. in fact, there's no real country in the world right now, including pakistan and my dad does recognize that television. no one has an x. i think something a surprise to tell a band that they were hoping to release pakistan wouldn't others would. china is not officially or they're trying to get lots of mine to tell a band to be sure. but yes, mean the idea that one would uncritically accept the argument that we should trust either nato forces after the debacle in afghanistan and libya or western corporations that have tried to exploit resources. as there is somehow the trusted forces to go in there and help the afghan people, yes. can people themselves should have the ultimate se, as 11 cent. thank you,

and that's it. show will be back on wednesday, the 20th anniversary of the u. s. invasion of afghanistan, code named operation anaconda, until then keep in touch for all our social media. let us know whether you think major countries did the right thing in the us to have a tonight, or was, was rupture between the russian and ukrainian ambassadors at the special session of the un general assembly of moscow's special operation. russia and russia alone started please invasion parts to grade them. there are no plans to occupy ukraine. the goal of the special operation is to protect people who have been subjected to a view from genocide, is from the clear regime, russia, ukraine, paste toby conclude on the bellows border with a kremlin delegation chief, hopeful that common positions can be found. the next round of negotiations.